tv Morning Joe MSNBC March 29, 2011 6:00am-9:00am EDT
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>> to brush aside america's responsibility as a leader and more profoundly our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are. some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities and other countries. the united states of america is different. as president, i refuse to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action. >> all right. good morning. it is tuesday, march 29. welcome to "morning joe." that was the president last night making the case for the intervention in libya. with us on set, msnbc political analyst pat buchanan. also, we have the chairman of deutsche incorporated, donny deutsche. "new york times" columnist charles with us as well. president obama, of course, made -- hi, willie. nice job on "way too early." i want to see the richard
simmons video. >> that's a media juggernaut. >> president obama made his case for american involvement in libya saying repeatedly that the u.s. intervened to prevent the slaughter of civilians. before we show you more of what he had to say let's go rapid fire around the table. pat buchanan, five seconds or less, how would you characterize the president's speech? >> left more questions open than answered. >> donny deutsche? >> i thought it was fantastic. >> of course you did. >> he looked like a leader and showed power of track cattle. >> i think it was solid. and holes in others. >> i still don't get his attempts to explain it why we don't go into syria again and another country. >> that was the question left unanswered. speaking in washington last night the president insisted not taking action would have been a betrayal of who we are as americans. >> if we waited one more day, benghazi, a city nearly the size of charlotte,ed the conscience
the world. it was not in our national interest to let that happen. i refused to let that happen. >> he ruled out targeting moammar gadhafi. warning that trying to oust him militarily would be a mistake as costly as the war in iraq. >> if we tried to overthrow gadhafi by force, our coalition would splinter. we would likely have to put u.s. troops on the ground to accomplish that mission. or risk killing many civilians from the air. to be blunt, we went down that road in iraq. thanks to the extraordinary sacrifices of our troops and determination of our diplomats we are hopeful about iraq's future. but regime change there took eight years, thousands of american and iraqi lives, and
nearly a trillion dollars. that's not something we canliby >> you could argue, though, that this speech had similarities to president bush's case for war in iraq. pat buchanan, about ruling out taking out gadhafi militarily, what if gadhafi declares cease-fire? >> the president's speech is not credible. he said we would lose hundreds of thousands, slaughtered in benghazi. who is going to slaughter them? gadhafi. however, we don't want to get into regime change and remove a guy that was going to do this when this, quite frankly is a very easy task. my reasoning being rebels have already crossed half of the country behind american air power and quite frankly about five or six more days of american air power -- >> it is an easy task. >> and you can knock him out. >> then what happens? a trillion dollars, eight years. we know you can't put a regime -- you can't initiate regime change and say good-bye. we don't have the resources. i actually think he made a practical decision, imperfect
but practical decision. could not let that slaughter take place. he said it to your point, we have to pick and choose. you can't do it all. this was a moment in time. listen to me. with the coalition, basically humanitarian effort. neuter gadhafi, move on. imperfect but practical solut n solution. >> you are going to neuter a snake like that? excuse me. have you the rebels halfway across the country. now you are going to have a civil war between rebels that can't win anything on their own and gadhafi's army. you have a long-term war. people dying in the thousands. >> pat, there is no end. end the thing in iraq. eight years later. it is not a feasible possibility. ideal world, that's not a practical economic reality for us right now. >> i'm not talking about our economic reality. >> it is to wage a third war now. we can't do it. i'm looking at it as a business person. >> we took half the country in one week. you can take this guy out. >> we haven't. we -- >> the americans have done it.
the americans -- >> i understand what you are saying, pat. you know what, this was done differently. in fact, there was help across the board. if anything, the president should have mentioned his partners in this by name, in my opinion. because that is what makes in style of leadership -- >> he did mention. he mentioned france, italy and great britain. >> actually saying they do -- what the regime change and don't want to do it militaitarily und this u.n. then don't want to use it as the campaign for the regime change. that's a tricky thing to say. to say they don't want gadhafi gone is not true. >> look, look, what did gadhafi do? what does he do to people that try to kill him? we tried to kill him. i wrote that speech. he blew up that plane over lockerbie. you leave him sitting there -- >> there is that. >> what do you think he will do in retaliation? you have a wounded snake there. you have to kill it.
>> pat, you can't -- let's -- you kill it. what happens next? >> what happens next is you bring the british and french in there and get saudi money. you get egyptian troops. get us out of there. but get this war over with. >> it doesn't get us out of there. then it becomes a war. then it becomes iraq. he was candid when he said i want to be blunt. >> this idea of not calling it a war, i also quibble with. i think, you know, at this point, it is truly a military campaign mostly by our military against their military. a plane has not flown in libya since the first day. this is no longer a no-fly zone. there is a story in "the times" that there are 200 tomahawks that have been -- from the u.s. there's, you know, over 450 guided bombs that have been dropped by the u.s. this is us attacking them. what we are trying to do is destroy their military both in the physical sense but also the
moralewise we are trying to turn their army into our ground troops because you have to have -- >> guys, ofry day on this show, let's rewind six weeks and talk about the 88% of the budget of this country between the pentagon entitlements. something has to give there. we are going broke. right now it is not an option to wage a full-scale war and initiate an occupation in that country. what you are doing here is -- let's rewind and punt band-aid on it and get them neutered. let's move on. >> if you don't want a war, why in the devil did we start it. >> why did we start it? >> we started a war. they are sending in now eight, ten warthogs and 130 gunships. what do you think they are going in there for? >> i think they are going in there on humanitarian effort to -- what are you laughing about? reality. >> you know what a 130 does? it is not a humanitarian ex-er nice this is what the president had to say last night on that issue. the president welcomed what many are calling the arab spring in the middle east saying the u.s.
would serve as a, quote, north star for democracy. >> i fknow at a time of upheava overseas, when the news is filled with conflict and change, it can be tempting to turn away from the world. as i have said before, our strength abroad is anchored in our strength here at home. that must always be our north star. >> willie geist, we would be a north star on the budget. sort of. right? >> yes. and donny, to go back to your question, and this is a sincere question. i'm not being facetious. the question of the bahrains and syrias, the president said, excuse me, we must always measure our need, perhaps this is a case by case situation. how many people die in a country where it becomes an -- in our interest? >> i think what he -- i think he answered that. he says you know what, this --
line newspaper this case. we have the coalition. basically we -- we've got egypt we are trying to stabilize there. obviously in terms of where it is, in terms of egypt, tunisia. this when you add it up case by case basis, it made sense to do the north star thing, if you will. i don't think there is an actual black and white answer. i think what we look for in the media is absolutes. i think we live in a world now of grayness. i think he made the right decision in this instance and i think it is a case by case basis. i don't think we can sit here and put on paper and put in a nice grid when you do it and when you don't. i think he added it up and acted very, very -- >> charles, you can see the problem there. if he lays out and says i wasn't going to wait to see images of mass graves on tv, if it is a moral and humanitarian question which is what he said last oco? e esons ilou e. >>t authe oher cotrsmong foar it is what about all of the cases on the continent of africa where we could have intervened. where have you images of mass slaughter, could you have made a case to go into darfur which
would have made whatever 10,000, 100,000 people who may have been killed in benghazi look like a picnic. there are ways you can always say there is a humanitarian case. there's always -- easy to make that case because we don't like to see people die particularly when they are in pursuit of democracy. the problem is when do you put the brakes on? >> was that addressed? last night's speech, are we all in the same page was supposed to clear up questions about what we are doing there. how we are doing it and why we are doing it. do we all wake up this morning having a sense of clarity? >> maybe i'm the simplest guy here. i did. i did. >> okay. one line. what do you take away? >> once again, it was a practical solution. an immediate problem. imperfect world. let's solve this. basically it is -- i wish we could go back to what libya was eight weeks ago. we know we have a snake in there. let's neuter him. we can't do much more. to do much less would be
un-american. >> that's an unsatisfying answer for pat buchanan. >> the united states is going to continue bombing and killing the libyan army because if we don't, there is a real possibility if these rebels that haven't been able to show they can beat their way out of a paper bag without our help, they could get beat again. they were being run out of their country until the americans came in. now, i disagreed with us going in. once you go into a war, you know, as macarthur said, look in war there is no substitute for victory. the victory is a very purpose of war. i mean, what's it when you are killing all these people -- you ask those libyan soldiers under our guns whether this is a war. >> well, that's -- i asked the question honestly. i'm -- i'm asking it because i think it is actually still out there. i don't know how it can be parsed out this way. that's where i'm not satisfied. where i feel confused as an american. >> this is what credibility is a real problem. i wish the president would just come out and state it candidly
and clearly. look, we may not like this. you are against it. we did it to save lives. we got to complete this job and then we will get out and i want your support. >> all right. >> i think he would have got it. >> i also -- you know -- >> make sure people -- i don't think the war necessarily is a dirt write word here. i think -- you know -- >> treating like it is a dirty ward. people are politicizing that and saying to support the president you will not call eight war because they won't call it a war. you know, on some level -- i don't know what else you call it. when it is military or military conflict. so -- i don't think that's a knock on the president. i just think that -- it is what it is. >> we have called it a civil war in libya which it is. very low-grade civil war but that's what it is. for a fight over who will control the future of that country. >> okay. well, i don't think the president is calling it a war. i think there are reasons why. we don't want a war in a third muslim country. >> it is not an option. pat, i want to go back because we look at things --
>> what makes a war for you? >> i think a war is a commitment, a long-term -- this is -- you call it military action. call it an offensive and defensive action. >> long term. let's stop right there. >> i just don't think there is -- >> timeline. >> basically said it is -- we don't have an option. we are a business in this country. we don't have another trillion dollars to spend over the next eight years. not an option. >> we are not going to spend a trillion dollar. >> by the way, what's the difference between this and iraq? let's do the macarthur thing. go in, finish the job. there is no halfway there. are we halfway there in iraq eight years later? by the way, are you able to leave a week after we took out sad ham hussein? it is just not -- you know that. >> let me ask you a question. >> you want to call this a war. >> the israeli six-day war a long-term thing? in 1967, they -- defeated the egyptians, syrians, jordanians in six days.
it was war. we could end this thing, quite frankly, in, i would say, two weeks. you can get rid of gadhafi. >> then we leave and what happens? >> you bring the brits and french in. you don't know want the germans and italians because of their history. bring the egyptians in on the eastern side. tell the saudis and arab league, you guys man up, we had enough of your nonsense. you said you were with us before this thing. we got rid of him. he's gone. you guys pay for it. we are leaving. we have problems in iraq. >> you know that's not going to work. it is never going to be that neat. and no matter how this turns out, it is not going to turn out neat. it is not -- >> how is it going to turn out? >> there's no positive here in the way this is going to end. i mean -- >> then why did you start it? >> i didn't start it. ask the president that question. >> imagine if -- >> i want us to just -- the two other extremes. a, we don't start it and do
nothing. we are watching these side, ful military action. what's he doing? we are trying to pull it out of afghanistan. so i -- i am agreeing with you. this is a very imperfect but practical solution in a gray situation which in this world -- i think either extreme is just not an option. >> one thing the president -- one thing the president cannot say is that -- point -- one of the most important things. you cannot allow the brute to win in this case. because there are so many other domino -- that's -- you he can't say that. that's very -- real important part of this. >> why doesn't he just say we are -- just what you said. we cannot allow this guy to stay in office after what he has done and what he was prepared to do in benghazi. he's gone. i'm sorry. >> i have clarity for you all. we are going to go to break. we have a big show this morning. tom brokaw will be here.
also, presidential hopeful tim pawlenty. radio host bill bennett. both will be here on this set. after the break, the politico playbook. why governor haley barbour and mike huckabee may be teaming up and who they could be targeting. but first, poor bill karins. everybody is picking on bill karins and he is adorable. >> i may be the only one on donny's side. i would like to say we turned the corner. this is going to be a cruel week and could end with a bang in new england. we will talk more about that a little later. let's go out and look at the temperatures. wind chills again. in the 20s. bundle up just like you did yesterday. turn the heater on in the car on high. later this afternoon, in the sunshine, it should be okay today. philadelphia, 48. we may sneak the 50 in d.c. with a breeze out there, it will be chilly. we are just as cold as yesterday from denver to chicago. nothing has changed. today along the gulf coast be prepared for thunderstorms in
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gone very far. officials say that secure the exhibits and are confident the on edge. >> you need to hide your kids, hide your wife. >> fortunately he is wearing his snake-proof ban dan and should be fine. >> there is a snake on the loose in new york city. >> could you have looked at pat when you said that. >> no, i'm looking right at you. directly across the table actually. >> i'm looking at you, too. do you know how many people stop me and say when are you going to give mika more shoes? >> it has been a long time since you insulted me. >> at least year. >> i will get you some birkenstocks. >> they are too expensive. i have never seen anything like it before in my life. let's take a look at the morning
papers. "usa today," new governors face big battles of the 29 governors elected last year, most are trying to address budget shortfalls. in the process, are upending politics in their states. a little later on "morning joe," we are going to bring in connecticut's first year governor daniel malloy who cut spending and raised taxes and is now paying for it in the polls. >> financial times, boost for libya rebellion. the country of qatr has become the first to recognize the rebel national council in libya. official representative of the north african nation. paves the way for the opposition to profit from oil sales on global markets. >> all right. "the new york times," when the first episode of "the kennedys" makes its debut sunday, a debate between accuracy and creative license will be removed. much of the series is invented dialogue from moments that were never recorded by history's pen. >> let's go to politico. chief white house correspondent, allen with a look at the
playbook. >> good morning. >> what's going on here? let's talk 2012. republican field. according to politico, aides trying to set up governor barbour and muck huckabee to meet to team up. what are they doing? >> yeah. this is juicy. this is a behind-the-scenes dance that could affect the outcome of iowa and really set the momentum for the 2012 race. barbour is trying to convince mike huckabee that he should support him. and mike huckabee who won iowa had the supporters of the home schoolers. there was a huge machine for him. might win iowa again if he were to jump into the contest. probably isn't going to. so barbour without pressuring him too much and huckabee not wanting to give up the platform and juice as possibly running. they are trying to make an alliance and there is a reason for it. we are going to see every day
going forward. and that's that they both want to stop mitt romney. we can already see as we saw in 2008 a lot of this field is going to want to gang up on mitt romney. certainly it is going to be the dynamic in the early debates and here is a little sign of it. we see -- as we head towards opening day for both baseball and 2012. >> pat, that alliance would suggest -- or at least outreach that huckabee will not run. >> that phrases the question, mike huckabee is christian, evangelical. he can transfer his support to a good old bourbon drinking boy from mississippi. i mean, lobbyist, doesn't sound like that translates. >> haley barbour recognizes that's a piece all the characteristics you mentioned are a piece that he needs to strengthen in his puzzle. it is a big reason he is courting huckabee and if he were to get that wing if he were to get the social wing, added to the economic conservatism, the -- the energy, anti-obama
issues, we have been talking about with barbour, that would be a powerful and big coalition in iowa. >> this alliance suggests something that you pointed out that mitt romney is not terribly popular among other members of the republican field. >> right. and partly because he has the target on his back. it is tough to be the front-runner this early. we saw it in the debates last time. there were some personal issues there, too. so mitt romney is still the man to beat. will have the most money. therefore, may have the most staying power. but we have this amazing situation where a different candidate can win every one of the early races. iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, nevada. we could have a different winner in every one of those states. that's why these guy was like to undercut, take out mitt romney early because he can outlast them because of the -- >> romney is the favorite about but this is no gimme for him. >> he has to win new hampshire
or iowa or he will fade like last time. >> life long democrats. isn't it exciteding to see these very -- mitt rom knee, huckabee, barbour. i know he is a democrat. like me. yeah. >> you guys talk nixon and reagan were weak republicans. i'm not sure they won 49 states. >> i was watching "gilligan's island" at that time. >> when we come back, a live report from nbc's jim maceda. after beating thebeating th drum, trump releases his birth certificate. [ male announcer ] 95% of all americans aren't getting enough whole grain.
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in that effort, the united states will play a supporting role. >> 32 past p hour. this is a live shot out of london where secretary of state hillary clinton is there for an international conference to discuss the future of libya. more than 44 ministers, including several from arab states are there gathering to map out long-term solutions to the country's crisis. so still more going on perfect tank to lib wra ya. we go now to libya. chief foreign correspondent jim maceda is on the ground in tripoli. what's the latest in the progress of the rebels there? >> reporter: first of all, thank you for the title. i will keep it. the progress here is phenomenal. if you look at what's happened in 24 hours. we were reporting yesterday that the rebels are on the outskirts of sirte. that's gadhafi's hometown. it is about 250 miles north of
news tripoli. but it really -- would have men that the rebels had moved about 200 miles in less than 24 hours. now we understand that they hit ayesterday, a fire. artillery fire and small arms fire. not coming as much from gadhafi troops as from local armed militia. civilians who have been armed by this regime in the small towns along the way. so much so that the convoy of rebels moving quickly along that coastal road had to stop, turn around and those rebels are about 90 miles east of sirte. sirte, of course is a huge symbolic and strategic prize but it is going to be very difficult for the rebels as they are finding out quickly to take it. unlike the other towns, like benghazi where u.s. led nato air strikes just wiped out any gadhafi opposition.
that's not the case now. we are not seeing the air strikes in the center and western parts of the country we saw earlier last week in the eastern part. and sirte -- heavily mined. these are people who are largely pr pro-gadhafi. he pumped a fortune into the town to gain the -- allegiance and loyalty of the tribes there. it is a totally different situation. and if nato forces, nato planes, were to attack, tanks artillery positions with the idea of protecting civilians. which civilians are they protecting? civilians in a town like are being protected, they say, by gadhafi's forces. threat coming from the outside, coming from the onslaught of rebel forces. events on the ground in the center and western part of the country supersede anything in that u.n. resolution.
>> jim, it is willie. we have been talk thing morning about the president's speech last night. positive and negative reaction. what's the reaction there, though? not only from the rebels but -- if any, from colonel gadhafi to what the president said last night about not wanting to wait to see images of mass graves and slaughter of civilians before he intervened. what are they saying there? >> reporter: there hasn't been any official comment from the -- from gadhafi or regime or from the compound yet. i can tell you that the whole atmosphere -- atmospherics here with our government officials and miners is very different. they had gone to ground for a number of days, very quiet, very tense. they are looking much more of themselves. much more bellicose, defiant in the past 24 hours. i would think it is an educated guess but i would say gadhafi after hearing that speech -- i wasn't on libyan tv but anyone
that has satellite television could have watched it, the regime now is feeling a lot better. they feel like they dodge ad bullet. nato is taking over and they like that. much better relation was nato than with the united states in general. and they love the idea that the u.s. position as stated by obama is that they are not looking for regime change. as soon as he heard that, i'm sure gadhafi was quite excited. he thinks he can probably negotiate his way out of this as he has over the past 41 years. other situations. back to you. >> jim maceda. enjoy that title we gave you. we gave it for you today and we are taking it back tomorrow. >> reporter: i love it. please, don't apologize. >> raises an interesting point as the -- the united states government kind of moves against gadhafi here the pressure on the journalists there, gadhafi's handlers are not as friendly. >> you know, jim maceda said gadhafi's guys sense relief,
things are going better. why? because obama said basically no regime change. in other words -- the point he smad dramatic. in sirte the rebels can't win without american air power and nato strikes hitting them so that -- rebels are stopped right now. >> going back to where it was seven weeks ago. that's as good as you can get. yeah. neutered gadhafi in power. that's the only option. >> we will continue this conversation with mika's must-read opinion page. >> i have those coming up. >> in a few minutes, presidential hopeful tim law lenity. also tom brokaw joining the conversation. we're america's natural gas.
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♪ michael, you went out to wisconsin to go out to the rally there where the unions are attacking the governor. why are public sector unions attacking republican governors around the united states. justify that. >> i think it is the other way around. >> that's not how i friend it. >> the wife of the man who runs metlife loves willie. >> wow. >> that sounds very scandalous. >> they do a terrific job. >> love you. >> insurance company. >> loves you. just saying these are the things -- hear on the street.
>> turn the mirror. no, no. everybody is happily married. it is all wonderful. >> thought i would tell thank you truth. >> i just find that -- >> you host a love show. >> corporate chief wives writing in requesting willie? >> no, i met her last night. she says he is adorable. she loves him. >> okay. >> as a friend. >> all right. "the new york times," this is roger cohen. interesting. pat, i think you might agree with this. arabs will be free. three months later, the genie not only out of the bottle it shattered the bought. i said of libya in an earlier column be ruthless or stay out. so now the west is in, be ruthless. arm the resurgent rebels, incapacitate gadhafi. gadhafi, as president said, must leave. so that libya can be an arab country that is imperfect but open.
>> if gadhafi stands off the u.s. navy and air force know the rest of it and survives, the question is if -- if gadhafi stays, does obama go, quite frankly? that will be an issue in 2012. if he is taking us to war against libya, that guy is sitting there in tripoli defining the -- defying the united states. >> the other thing about that, the american public -- i don't believe have the stomach to go any distance on libya at all. i mean, one part of what the president was saying was, you know, you don't want to wait to get the images. that's also part of their problem which is that there are no images. there is no one to empathize. >> charles -- >> hangover from egypt looking at those images and projecting them on to libya. but, you know, every other humanitarian case, iran, young woman was shot in the street, somalia where there were people starving, kosovo where families
were being forced out into the cold and suffering, you had images to rally around. america does not have that in this case. that's going to be hard for people to hold on to -- nothing that in a country in north africa, they don't know where it is and don't necessarily care about to engage the -- their own time. >> it is a problem. >> i think that -- look, in -- i agree. look, you can't occupy that country. i wouldn't be against it. i mean, you have gone in and gone halfway. go get him out of there. >> then you have to occupy it. >> hold it. hold it. you don't use americans. you use british and french -- >> sure, why not? >> and get out. but i will tell you, if you start -- >> no. >> do you think that's real? >> if you leave that guy in power you -- obama will have been defeated and the united states will have been defeated, quite frankly. because we started a war and we didn't finish it. >> i think we are seeing -- >> longer than we have -- he has
politically to get this done. it cannot -- >> i think what we are seeing now -- guys, go back to egypt. we heard obama, oh, my god, standing on the sidelines. the end justified the means. we are seeing what i call practical leadership now. we are not -- we are not the united states when you were with nixon where you can come in, kick ass around the world. it has to be tempered. that's the reality where we sit in the world now. i think a calculated tempered response was the only response. for you to sago and take him out and say to the europeans go in and fix it, say to the egyptians, fix it -- it is going to be our mess to clean up. we can't do it. >> i say, look, don't start a fight unless you are prepared to end it. now egypt, recent vote there on the -- when they are going to have the elections and the rest of it. the military party and the muslim brotherhood got 77% of the vote, i believe. if you think the future of that is going to be guaranteed with
small deed democracy, have you another thought coming, my friend. >> okay. let's move on to david ignatius. really respected writer here on these issues. from "the washington post," obama gave a good libya speech but soon he needs to deliver a cairo speech that will articulate a coherent strategy for the region. history is on the move from morocco to iran. yes, in afghanistan and pakistan, too. if obama can connect his policy with the way that transformed tunisia and egypt he will solve the core riddle of his presidency. charles, is that correct? >> i think that's correct. i think that this puts obama back into a box he was in when he first took office. this idea of having to say to america, if i had it done -- hadn't done something things would really be bad. people have to imagine what that bad thing is. he had that same issue on the economy.
you know, and having to build out the economy. if i hadn't done something things would be awful. he has to do it again now. they haven't been able to make that case. people don't necessarily connect as well to this idea of make me -- >> you studied the pulse of the people the numbers. i actually think there may be more synchronicity between what the president is doing and the american people. tell me if i'm wrong. i don't think they want us fully engaged in a -- >> i think you are right. >> i don't think they want a long-term engagement. i don't think they necessarily connect with whether or not gadhafi being in power or out of power, neutered or whatever, really affects their bottom line. >> no. i think the people -- the pole -- a pole yesterday basically people saying it was right to go in andatrocity. 50% of the people very unclear as to what we are doing there and why we are did there and what the end game may be. and i think that that number is always highest when you start it could only go down from there.
>> we are not there alone and that's a difference? >> this idea that this -- you know, nato is going to -- what's that? if we are running, you know, i don't know what you say when you say nato is going to take over. >> if gadhafi is on a plane to venezuela, gadhafi is a big winner. and the republicans are silenced. you leave him in there and the polls say we we don't to go, a mistake. if you go in there, go in and finish and end it and let the results speak for themselves. better not have him in power in 2012. >> i have $20. we are a trillion dollars short. >> let me put that in my shoe fund. we have an e-mail about onet pas who cares what donny deutsche thinks? he is an arrogant, pompous know it all with no credibility. but "way too early" is terrific. can i just say -- nancy is upset
because -- >> chilly in west palm beach. i couldn't make it. let's qualify that. >> you have never been on to chili's in your life. >> come on, you are angry and this is not the forum. >> southwestern egg rolls in chili's. >> what is chili's? >> coming up next, news you can't use. you will love this story. ozzie conseco who was supposed to show up for a charity fight -- >> tattoos. >> you know what he tried to do? he sent his twin -- would notice. >> those tattoos. ♪ sun in the sky
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the e-mails are coming in. everyone loves you. they are all with you. >> it is a flood. >> important news to get to. >> we have donald trump news. we don't have time for this. >> i don't want to hear any nice we love willie and his lips e-mail. >> no, not the lips. donny. the wife of the metlife man is spot on. willie in a tie, nothing better
to start the day. >> perfect. >> can you find one, please -- i'm so jealous? gel us researchers have been looking. we have been combing the internet for positive -- >> we haven't found any. let's talk about donald trump. he has been on the birther kick lately. to make a point to president how easy it is to produce a birth certificate he produced his and says here it is. from new york city. one problem is city officials revealed that when it is issued by the departme neither of which this has. new questions. was donald trump born in america? just kid. >> stop. >> it donald trump talking about the birther issue last night. >> somebody asked me today could i see your birth certificate. hi it in my hands in less than an hour. fact is that if you look at what's happened with respect to this birth certificate issue, he doesn't have it. he spent millions of dollars on
lawyers trying to get out of the issue. they give what's called a certificate of life birth which doesn't even have a signature on it and anybody can get a certificate of live birth. it is nothing to do with a birth certificate. you don't have a doctor or a nurse? he's the president of the united states. and no doctor, no nurse, nobody has come forward saying i delivered that beautiful baby? >> it was beautiful baby. >> okay. you know what? i'm sorry. i'm sorry. >> i have to tell you, donald is a friend of mine. i love donald and i agree with him 99% of the time. he has a forum now. i think he is -- i don't understand. he is such a smart guy. i just think he is off on this one. think the forum you have. >> they seriously ask is donald trump going to run for president. a lot of serious questions about this. i think that we are at a -- moment in history where a lot of people who wouldn't necessarily think this way would actually take a moment to listen to what
he has to say because of his business experience. this throws it away. this throws it off to the extreme -- >> if -- the trade issue really well and it is a very powerful issue and the fact that people really grab our market and their market, i think -- >> sorry. >> -- he would have a real issue. stronger one than the one he is using now. >> call mika. >> i'm going to call him. i tried. >> let's talk about another leading presidential candidate. jose canseco. slugger, admitted steroid user, et cetera. he has gotten into this deal of seblg boxing where he fights for money. he pull ad fast one or tried to. saturday night in south florida. the promoter at the seminole hard rock, he pull ad bait and switch by sending his twin brother, ozzie, to fight in his place and hoping no one would notice. somebody did figure out what was going on here when ozzie took off his shirt and had much, much, much different tattoos than his brother, jose. >> you can tell that
immediately. >> well -- that's apparently what we are told by our producer. that's a tattoo shirt that was pulled on, perhaps to look -- >> this guy looks three times the size of the other guy. that doesn't seem like a fair fight. >> danny bonaduce. >> can you just stop? >> one more for you. this is great. air new zealand -- people tune out. >> not anymore. >> i love this. >> air new zealand is keeping people's attention on safety. help from richard simmons. actual safety video. >> work hard. work out. and get you fit to fly. let's go! it is seat belt time. when the seat belt sign comes on, buckle it in. grab, click pull. grab, click pull. nice and snug. low across the hips but not too tight. don't worry if the bag is feeling flat the oxygen will flow automatically. sorry, this flight is strictly nonsmoking. it is a safety hazard. the captain says let's kick
butt. >> if the idea is to get people to pay attention i'm watching that. i'm watching that. >> pat buchanan. >> bill bennett next. nouncer ] this...is the network. a living, breathing intelligence that's helping business rethink how to do business. in here, machines tell factories when they're thirsty. so soft drink companies can manage thousands of vending machines in real time. ♪ and customers find what they want...when they want it most. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities, creating and integrating solutions, brie.
advancing army, prevent a massacre, and establish a no-fly zone with our allies and partners. to lend perspective on how rapidly this military and diplomatic response came together, when people were being brutalized in bosnia in the 1990s, it took the international community more than a year to intervene with air power to protect civilians. it took us 31 day. >> top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." pretty shot there. joe is off. spending time with his dad who celebrates a birthday this week. pat buchanan and donny deutsche are still with us. joining the table, former secretary of education under president reagan and host of nationally syndicated broadcast radio show, bill bennett's morning in america. william bennett joining the table this morning. bill the co-author of the new book "the fight of our lives knowing the enemy, speaking the
truth and choosing to win the war against radical islam." thanks very much for being on the show this morning. good day to have you on. let's just talk about the -- okay, donny. we will hold back. we know that the president brought you clarity. the question is do you have clarity this morning as to exactly what our mission is in libya? >> can i first tell you pat buchanan's story? >> yes. that's the way to start the morning. >> my alumni dayf. holy cross boys school. i'm nominated for the first job i had, reagan administration, he writes an editorial and gets half the resume. this guy went to williams and harvard. what's he doing in the reagan administration? remind you we went to the same high school and i was on the city champ team. sorry, brother. >> st. john's. >> beat st. john's. >> that was a good speech. deliver ad good speech. i don't think it makes a lot of sense. i think there are a lot of
questions. i'm for taking out gadhafi but when you go to take out gadhafi take out gadhafi. don't say gadhafi has to go. then don't take him out. it is possible that they are still going to take him out. though i'm not sure we can. our guys are capable of doing that sort of thing. if he gives the order, it is possible. it would have been easier three, four weeks ago. but the reason that -- your question earlier -- i have been watching you all morning -- about syria and other countries, is the coalition won't allow it. the coalition won't allow it. remember, he is relying a lot on the arab league. this is a funny kind of replay of the road to baghdad. you remember we turned back from baghdad in '93. right? and it took us 12 years. that took us 12 years to get sad ham hussein out of there. now, you know, federalist papers hamilton says when america goes abroad militarily it should go like hercules. that does not mean occupation. i think the options you talked about do nothing or you have to occupy the country, sufficient
options. you can take him out and you have -- i think you probably have a better situation. than having gadhafi there. >> what's different than iraq and trillions of dollars and thousands of american lives? why is that not the road map to not follow? >> that was a war. >> by the way, the you take the guy out -- obviously i -- take the guy out and -- pat's solution of let's tell the europeans what to do and tell the egyptian bhas what to do. we take them out. there is a vacuum in there. we have to go in there. >> no, we don't. >> what's -- give me the playbook. >> i think the reason we are in there is because he was embarrassed into it, frankly. i think he has good humanitarian impulses. i wish he exercised them in '09 and iran and wouldn't have had to sent tomahawk missiles or men. could have supported the green revolution and i think that regime would have toppled. much more dangerous country, much more in our international interest. you can take out gadhafi and still make the situation better.
you are in there because sark y sarkozy, third time sarkozy challenged him. so he steps up. the president steps up. the situation is likely to be better with gadhafi gone. it could be worse. it could be a long time with gadhafi -- >> i'm going to go with the neutered snake strategy. rewind the clock to seven weeks ago. move on. give me the playbook, gadhafi is out and give me the next eight weeks, give me the next eight years there. >> you say to the coalition, you needed us to get this job done. clearly. they couldn't have done it without american power. aristotle says the powers of the ability to be or make things be. we can make things be without military flip we did that and now we are stepping out. you guys and the arab league, it is your part of the world. you rebuild this country and work with the rebels and he is gone. i think you solved your problem. by the way, he solved a re-election problem for himself, too. >> republicans don't have an answer and people -- >> we will see about that. >> why do you see we will see about that? >> well -- i -- wait until paul
ryan comes forward with that budget in april. we will see. i think it is as much a test to the republicans as a test to the country. >> right. >> if this is a serious budget that talks about things we really need to do to get this under control, i -- i don't know how the country will go. join how those independents are going to go. i hope -- >> i have to talk about -- i have a book. i have a book. >> once again -- did. >> we have lots of time. >> talk gadhafi out and it is not as clean as the coalition coming in and we have to spend another $300 billion, $500 billion. >> doing what? doing what? >> being involved in a war. >> no, no, no. take him out. >> why didn't we leave iraq? >> because we went up there to take over iraq. bush ii did. i think bush i -- opposed the war but he was exactly right. i disagree with bill here. he said we have a mandate to get him out of kuwait and got him out of kuwait and leave him up there. i think he did the right thing. i think we made a mistake going tall way. >> i know you do. look what happened to the kurds. that's what -- could happen now
if we don't get gadhafi out. >> that's what bush told him, rise up. >> then we didn't back him up then you didn't back him up. >> i'm going to get back to libya. you said that, you know, wait to see this budget and then -- what the party does. but -- i don't care if you have a good budget or great elective unity in your party. who is the candidate? who is the candidate that could beat obama? >> maybe the guy is coming up in the next few minutes. tim paw len. >> i let me ask you te is. i think it could still be coming in from the wings. >> there is something missing from the republicans. they are doinging a great job on the austerity, but we had that in the old days and also had reagan's optimism and the program of growth and we are going to grow this economy. we are going through some pain but there is a promise land down there at the end of the rainbow. we don't have that second half of it right now. >> i think it is ryan in '16 but i don't think it's ryan in '12.
>> we are going to -- worked for me and jack kemp. >> we are going to get to your book in just a second. we have richard engel live in benghazi right now with the latest on the -- how the rebels are doing there and also the reaction, if any, to president obama's speech and encountering some resistance. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has been charting their path from benghazi. take it away. >> reporter: starting with reaction, the speech obviously was in the middle of the night here. so most people didn't see it live. they have read excerpts or heard exception of the speech by now. the reaction is overwhelmingly positive. the president talked about not waiting to see images of mass graves here in benghazi. well, obviously it was the people of benghazi that would have been in those mass graves so there is a deep feeling of gratitude.
but with that gratitude, people want more continued support. they want air strikes to continue. because as you mentioned the frontline is now advancing towards gadhafi's hometown of sirte. that fight is not going well after -- about a 48-hour rapid advance. rebels reached sirte yesterday. this morning, gadhafi's -- forces were pushing back the rebels, driving them back several miles. gadhafi's troops have created a defensive perimeter around sirte and without much more western help, it is pretty clear that the rebels here aren't going to take sirte any time soon. >> richard, it is willie. we have been talking this morning about what libya would look like if gadhafi does remain in power. he would be weakened and military would be crippled. would he still be strong enough to assert his will over the rebels? what kind of country would it be with gadhafi a year from now still in power after all that's happened over the last few weeks? >> reporter: well, i think sirte is really key. let's assume for a second that
gadhafi holds on to sirte and probably pushes forward a little bit so that he can regain his oil facilities. that is clearly gadhafi's oyfb. he does want to just stay in sirte. he wants to regain the incredible oil resources that are just a few miles down the road. >> richard, pat buchanan here. if -- if. >> reporter: if that happens -- i thought we had a delay. if that happens we could have a stalemate and to answer your question, we have adided lia. stuny eremb ee an u have a west with oil that's a separate country. that could be going on for a long time. >> richard, very short question. if rebels don't get american air power and air strikes continuing and allied air strikes, can the rebels win the war? >> reporter: no. they can't win the war. they probably can hold on to what they have got. a lot of it comes down to the wording and mandate of this resolution, of this entire purpose of the -- entire purpose
of the conflict. if it is the to defend the civilian population that was under threat, most of that civilian population that was under threat is already now defended. you have the east around benghazi protected by a bubble. if gadhafi's forces try to advance on benghazi again clearly they will be blown out of the sky. the rebels are blown away from the sky. rebels are now trying to advance into sirte. sirte is unfriendly territory. so -- there are many gadhafi supporters inside sirte. the rebels are advancing on to opposing civilian territory. and if the -- if the west -- if the united states is willing to do that, then they could help the rebels win the war, take the whole country. >> all right. nbc's richard engel live in benghazi, libya. thank you very much, richard. >> i'm going to get to your book now, bill. "the fight of our lives." almost ten years now since
september 11th. where are we in the fight against radical islam? are we able to isolate it, find out who the bad guys are and -- >> we have done a lot of serious harm to radical islam, to al qaeda. there is no doubt about it. but the book is about intellect wam confusion, culture am confusion, if you will the war at home. it is an odd thing to be in a war and not be able to name the enemy. and talk about it with confidence. and clarity. you know, this libya thing, for 20 years, the united states has now gone to eight different places to liberate to free muslims from dictators. it has all been muslims. nothing since panama. everything since panama has been about liberating muslims. yet, there is a notion that this -- nation is -- anti-islamic, so on. we have been the greatest liberator of muslims in the history of the world. we have to get the argument right at home and we are not. the pentagon report about hassan did not mention islam, radical islam. eric holder in a hearing would not say that the times square
bomber had anything to do with his very strong, perhaps -- islamic faith. the president has trouble talking about this. peter king has hearings to talk about the attempts to radicalize muslim youth and is painted as joe mccarthy. three international leaders of al qaeda in the world, nurtured or born in the united states. perfectly legitimate ininquiry. if you raise the question and say look, there are a lot of people blowing us to smithereens, there is something wrong here. they are accused of bigotry. it is a very rational response. >> why do they hate us? >> well, because we represent everything that they don't like such as -- this is the odd thing me. such as equality of women, free commerce, individual thought, christianity, judaism, all sorts of things that this -- we are
successful. they don't like that. they hate us. >> isn't it they want us out of their part of the world? >> they want to kill us. let's take them seriously now. not draw cartoons of them or make fun of them. let's take them at their ward. bernard lewis, princeton scholar that has been at this for 50 years says they know who they are. they know how to identify themselves. why can't we? >> what's the takeaway from the book? the problem you are stating is -- i think we can all agree with. there is a conundrum here. what's the net take away from the book? >> to quote somebody that was on the show, jon meacham. >> a punk. pulitzer prize. i don't care. he is still a punk. i'm sorry. >> anyway. already. islam needs reform. you know, when -- catholic church has a very serious problem. we had one the last few years. lot of house to speak out about it. islam needs reform. as meachem put it, anti-semitic, anti-american, and it is sexist. it needs to address that
problem. at least it has those very strong tendencies and we have to talk about this. the reason -- the reason we have to get it right is if people had the courage to call hassan what he was and to identify him, we wouldn't have had 14 dead people. this guy wasn't, you know, setting off small signals about what he was about. he was sending off loud alarms. he was carrying a card that said soldier of allah. everybody was afraid to touch it because they were afraid of being called an anti-muslim. >> i think everybody agrees radical islamists -- a huge issue here is how do you go after that without the pain brush of the billion nonradical islamist snst. >> start with the radical ones. start with the guys that are saying things like what he is saying. take the guy in tesquend hiwrin risl ta t g who i yio assassine or bush seriously. that's what we have to do. we would have prevented a lot of these things. >> there's also the completely ridiculous reaction to the community center being built near ground zero. not even at ground zero.
that led to such extreme behavior and hatred on our side. i think we need to learn more, too, reach out more. >> what was the irrational behavior? >> oh, god. all right. >> no, i'm not sure what -- i'm not sure what you are describing. >> really? >> resisting it? >> they were resisting it and characterizing it incorrectly. and acting out of fear. >> i don't think that's the place to put an islamis islamic >> i agree with bill. there's tone. >> wow. >> the worries and sensitivity. i agreeinom musls at they had something to could with -- impolilicit. >> make sure it is right at ground zero. >> it wasn't -- oh, my god. am i in a time warp? >> i just -- basically if
families, if i'm a family member and lost someone in 9/11 -- oh, lord. >> pearl harbor. >> this is exactly why we need to have more education on both sides. that's the only thing i would argue. >> i think the key word -- >> key word is insensitivity. sometimes you have to look beneath what's the broad strokes of wait a second, freedom and whatnot. i think -- >> pope didn't allow that monastery -- >> let's remove the one at the pentagon, too. that will help. coming up, tom brokaw joins us live here in the studio with a stake on president obama's speech. next, he called president obama indecisive on libya. tim pawlenty is here to weigh in on last night's address. we will be right back. i'm good about washing my face. but sometimes i wonder... what's left behind? [ female announcer ] introducing purifying facial cleanser from neutrogena® naturals. developed with dermatologists... it's clinically proven to remove 99% of dirt and toxins and purify pores.
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and will actively pursue it through nonmilitary means. but broadening our military mission to include ato "morning joe." it is 22 past the hour. joining us now, former republican governor of minnesota, tim pawlenty. back at the table this morning. good to have you, sir. convince me, what would be the difference if it was you making that speech last night? >> one of the things i said on march 7, which is now several weeks ago, we should have established the no-fly zone. i supported it and believe the humanitarian mission and avoidance of slaurghter in liby was important. the rebels had substantial momentum. in my view they had glad half i don't the ropes. he was talking openly about leaving voluntarily. i think the threat of or the implementation of the no-fly zone back then would have given the rebels a quick and easy or relatively easier window of opportunity to get rid of gadhafi. now we are in the position of
having the president of the united states saying gadhafi must go. we are not going to necessarily make him go. that's untenable. i would have establish ad no-fly zone and established it earlier. now when we have the president of the united states in and leader of the free world saying gadhafi must go, gadhafi has to go. >> okay. what about -- >> how about the budget reality? how about he has to go, let him go on my premise he goes, vacuum, between can't just pick up and leave, cry about this budget deficit and talk about the pentagon and talk about entitlements. yet we start spending more money now in libya? >> that's part of your message, too. >> in a post-gadhafi era in labia is not clear. there is risk here. there is risk militarily, financially. we have upwards of ten countries in the tinderbox of the world, middle east, in various stages of revolt. for the leader of the free world, the united states of america, it is not appropriate to be sitting on the sidelines and just watching history unfold without exerting some leadership. this president, i thought, was belated and timid in that regard. >> can't sit on the sideline, does that mean you would now
intervene in other places? yemen, syria, bahrain, places like that? >> each one of these is different, willie. you can't just make a blanket statement about what we are going to do. each have different background, cultures, histories, context, take for example syria. you have bashir, a sect of the shia. majority in his country. this is an individual who many in the united states mistakenly were dupe flood believing was a reformer, change agent. he's a terrorist. he is a killer and enabled people -- >> would you have us going in there? >> no. first of all, if i was the president of the united states i wouldn't recognize and legitimize syria and this administration. one of the most sinister in the world by sending an ambassador to syria as president obama did. i would start by recalling the ambassador and i would denounce syria publicly and speak to the syrian people about how the united states stands with their hopes and dreams to get rid of this individual. >> if you denounced the leader of syria publicly wouldn't that be saying glad laffey must go? wouldn't you be getting yourself into the same situation?
can you have it both ways? about we are not saying gadhafi must go. call the ambassador and tell the syrian people who are seeking a change in leadership or at least seeking rorm ining reforms in t countries we stand for principle p.m. thaeps a starting point. they suggested that perhaps he is a reformer. somebody that they can accommodate. >> you think assad is a reformer? >> absolutely not. that's a complete crock, bill. he houses hamas in his country and enables hezbollah and allowed people to transit through his country to kill american soldiers in iraq. i have been there five times in and three in afghanistan. this person is not a reformer. he is a thug and sinister dictator. >> isn't he al ow,e arab league did you than allow it, is it smart to subordinate or goals, our aims and interests? >> absolutely not. what you have been talking about this morning illustrates the point exactly. have a leader of the free world,
president of the united states who says glad half why you must go but can't realize that goal through his own means or our own means because he is now entrapped by the subordination of american interests and power to the arab league and united nations. that's going to put him in -- has already put him in untenable position. >> i-want to bring you back here. let's go on the premise the elections a s one with the econ. the republican party the field is a party of no. give me your playbook for the economy. give me the platform now. get the economy back on track. not what the president is doing wrong. what you would do specifically to create jobs. >> first of all, we have to have a strong dollar policy, reflekts a strong economy and strong country. i would stop the flooding of the economy of liquidity, fake liquidity. there is a limit of how far you can go with flooding the economy with fake money without having a consequence in terms of our standing around the world and our credit. number one. number two, listen to the job providers and investors and employers of capitalists to what they need for the economy. the answer in short is get the
government burdens in the form of taxation, regulation, litigation, and energy costs, workers comp, unemployment insurance costs, and down, not up. get government off my back not more on my back. three, we have to have an educated and prepared work force. we are not going to be a successful country if our people are uneducated and unskilled, unable to access the economy, ticked off and becoming wards of the state. that will not work morally or socialally and not economically. it is the civil rights issue of our time. and the first thing that this administration does when they mo th, wi t moat ngsseline e scholahi for poor kids and one of the most d-- in washingt. they talk about how they are for the disadvantaged. really? why are you shutting the door on poor kids getting a better education? >> the budget proposals being put forward or not and where are the cuts? beyond the cuts to probably areas of our country that need it the most. where are the real cuts,
platform that your party stands for in terms of deficit reduction and trying to restore fiscal health. what would you have them do? >> i know you like blunt ask direct talk, me cars as do i. >> do it. >> first of all, this shun be a debate between whether we are going to spend $3 opinion 65 trillion or $3.7 trillion. that's not the range of difference between the republicans and the democrats appropriately defined. that's not the kind of bold action or rhetoric that people need or want either in the campaign trail or in government. so you can't get out of the hole substantially without addressing entitlements. as you mentioned before on the show. we need to raise the retirement age for new entroonts social security. that's acceptable. i think to most americans for new entrants into the program. number two, i'm not for means testing generally but it is okay to means test at least the cost of living adjustment in social security. not the whole program. for medicaid we have to shut off the autopilot features and send the whole thing to the state. >> that's great. that's great. is your party showing leadership
on this front? >> not yet. >> okay. >> not yet. >> what do they need to do? who needs to do it? >> i would start with this premise. politicians tend to get more courageous when their backs are up against the wall. so on this issue of never ending coming resolutions versus the prospect of government shutdown we don't wish that. that should be a last resort. i think it is time to draw a line in the sand. >> bill bennett? >> quick on courage. few courageous governors in my view. scott walker, john kasich doing interesting things. some of the things you did in minnesota. polls t polls are collapsing it looks like. is that temporary? what's the message? >> i actually had the first government shutdown in minnesota in 2005. first one in 150-year history of my state. was it ugly, difficult? of course. was it unpopular? yes. a year later i got re-elected in one of the most difficult states in the country for a conservative in one of the most difficult years politically. >> persevere and do the right thing. >> do the right thing. >> is governor walker doing the right thing? nobody is denying we have to balance the budgets.
basically just go after the whole premise and of what a union is and just -- to me, as far as basically -- eyideologic grab, do you agree with what what he is doing? >> i'm probably of the few in the race that was in a union. i was in the union for seven years. my dad was a teamster tuck driver. i come from a union family. governor walker is doing the right thing for this reason. you now have the unions and specifically the public sector unions. not necessarily all of the private sector unions. meat packing plants, comb miners and folks that had industrial abuse in the day. have you the public sector employees in this country having the best benefits, best pay, and some of the most coddled employees in the nation getting better deal than the people paying the bill. namely the taxpayers and the taxpayers have figured this out. they are ticked off and want it changed. >>ing there to come to the table. >> this was about breaking the unions up. this was not about a fiscal responsibility. to me that -- well, go ahead. ill. >> governor, we know you have designs on the white house in
2012. >> lot of names. >> lot of names in the hopper right now. if you look at the polls, though, your name i.d. is near the bottom despite your having been out there quite a bit over the last several months. how do you change the fact that the united states doesn't really know who you are? >> you have to get better known. couple of things. one is don't take these name i.d. early polls too seriously. history shows they are almost never a good predictor of the result. number two, look at that time early states. iowa, new hampshire, other places where there's results are already better and are getting better each week and each month. three, as this unfolds, if you are a serious candidate for president of the united states, your name i.d. will be close to 100% by the end anyhow. again, as to mika's question earlier off air, anybody who tries to predict or presume they know what will happen in politics a year and a half or more before an election, it is quite presumptuous. when your name i.d. is this low you can't put the polls and say this is an extrapolation of the future. >> i was laughed off the set when i brought up candidate
barack obama's name. that changed. so i -- you are right. you are right. so then let me bring up a name. and just -- you tell me what comes to mind. as potential rival, donald trump. >> i think he's -- talented and funny. i think he's interesting. >> is he a candidate, serious candidate? >> he might be. you know, we will see. the country is going to have a choice between six, eight, ten candidates. >> what do you make about this angle with the birther? >> i for one do not believe we should be raising that issue in the sense -- i think president obama was born in the united states. cnn reported they saw the birth certificate at one point. i question his poll seesz -- >> you don't play into that? >> i don't play into that. >> do you think with trumps it would be the jobs and econalk ad economy. >> former minnesota governor tim pawlenty, thank you. thanks very much. bill bennett, thank you for
joining us. look forward to reading your book. the book is "the fight of our lives." in a few minutes tom brokaw will join us to break down the president's case for libya. a little later, connecticut governor daniel malloy returns to "morning joe." he will be on the set with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] america's beverage companies are working together to put more information right up front. adding new calorie labels to every single can, bottle and pack they produce. so you can make the choice that's right for you. ♪
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♪ they have a function every year where the mayor appears in some goofy outfit. so people think oh, look what a good sport the mayor is. and so over the weekend, it was mayor bloomberg's turn. he dressed up as spider-man. that's supposed to make us feel like well, he's just a regular guy, you know. look at him up there in his little spider-man outfit. i think we have a photo. here, take a look. there he is right there. i will say this for the guy. he's ready. >> that's terrible. 37 past the hour. live shot from the top of the -- look at new york city this morning. it is pretty. but it is cold still. welcome back to "morning joe." quick look at the news now.
tensions are flaring between new york mayor michael bloomberg and governor andrew cuomo overing the state's new budget deal. bloomberg calls the agreement an outrage and insists it falls far short of providing the city with the $600 million it needs to avert massive layoffs. meanwhile, new research poll finds an overwhelming 69% of new york voters approve of the job cuomo is doing. 20% disapprove. in other news, republican governor rick schnyder signed a controversial law in michigan the first state to reduce the number of weeks jobless workkers get state benefits. snyder says the change which will be implemented next year is necessary to allow people currently out of a job to get up to 20 more weeks of help from a federal program. however, democratic critics say it will mean more hardship for workers laid off after 2012. up next, tom brokaw is here. keep it right here on "morning
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♪ born as we are out of a revolution by those who longed that history is on the move in the middleeand nth ari anyog op a leadinging the way. because wherever people long to be free, they will find a friend in the united states. ultimately, it is that faith, those ideals, that measure of american leadership. >> 42 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe."
donny deutsche and pat buchanan still with us. joining us now, nbc news' tom brokaw. that's quite a promise. i'm wondering if president obama brought clarity to our engagement in libya and his n his speech last night. >> i was watching pat earlier and agree with a lot of what he said. this is the beginning of something, not the end of something. we don't know where it goes from here, quite honestly. i have been talking to members of the national security team. one of the problems that they have, a lot of them, obviously. but one is they don't know where he can go, gadhafi. there is no place that's willing to accept it and that's an issue for them. moreover, he is a survivor. he has been in office for 42 years. we had a tough experience with sad ham hussein. didn't get rid of him with the no-fly zone even when we declared war with him, he was on the run. a lot of i shall news play. you widen the screen and who is to say that you won't have the same kind of military action against the citizens of syria which we are already beginning to see and that could --
intensify. our friends the saudis, go into bahrain and help them put down a revolt there. so we have a lot of pieces that are in motion right now. and the question is what is our middle east policy in an overarcing way? isn't this the time to take a look at our investment in that part of the world? and stakes there, you know, secretary gates and president again last night didn't use the word, national security but said we have interests. our interests begin with oil. >> and -- i don't understand -- y this is the first time we have heard that word today. >> yeah. >> is there way to be transparent about this? and honest about this? >> of course there is. it is the -- everything that's going on, everyone knows that. it doesn't mean that we don't have -- given the values of this country, moral and political obligation to people that are the victims of genocide.
there is no question about that. but it -- there is not a hard formula for determining that. it is not x minus y equals z when you -- it is -- you know, a very subjective judgment you are going to make. my point is that there is a lot at play here. it is the beginning. one of the national security members did say to me last night, you know, we should be grateful to the bush administration they got rid of nukes in libya which is -- think about it. if he still had those, he would -- turned them back in because he thought the same thing would happen back-to-him that's happened to sad ham hussein. >> let's talk about the oil interests. let's just take the options of a neutered gadhafi there. versus gadhafi out of power and a big question mark there. where do the oil interests -- >> there is no neutered gadhafi. i don't think that's politically possible. >> exactly. it really is impossible. >> as long as he stays there, he is a symbol to the people who want a change. and if he's neutered what does that mean? does he suddenly become a jeffer seasonian democrat?
i don't think so. people are saying they want more control over that your own lives and their own destiny. >> then let's play that out and -- if there was no such thing as a neutered sad ham h e hussein, how do we not go down that path? >> that's the big question. tom friedman who knows more about that part of the world than any other journalist i know, wrote over the weekend about how encouraged he was by the political developments going on in iraq. you dial back and that's been going on for eight years and costs more than 4,000 lives, cost this country more than a trillion dollars. >> let me say something. hussein obviously a beast also. would the world be a better place -- not talking about the people of iraq, i'm talking about our interests, i'm talking about let's wind back the clock. hussein is stlil. neutered, if you will, if there were wmds, get them out thereof. like libya, take them out. trillion dollars in our pocket, lives not lost. would the world --
>> donny, that's an abstract. it doesn't reflect reality in any way. there is no way saddam hussein would remain some kind of neutral benign figure. i mean, you can go -- >> isolated in that country. >> he was isolated at the time. i thought we had him in a box at the time. >> that's my point. >> but the fact is that they thought a fuse was burning over there. and -- you know, we are no going to go back and refight that war. those are the objective conditions that we now live with. gadhafi is somebody who has turned his military on his own people. he doesn't have the nuclear weapons we -- we were pretty sure he once had. he is not a force for progress and in that part of the world. and this began not with us coming across the borders on our own terms, it began with his own people. pushing back against him. members of his own government and his own military have left. now having said all of that, no one has any illusions about how tough this is going to be. nor has anyone ruled out the
idea that we have a domino effect that could come into play here with other countries that -- that get involved. my point is -- take a deep breath. we all have to be thinking in a bipartisan fashion. what do we do about the middle east? what are our stakes there? what are our interests there long term? >> well, it is -- i think oil, number one. and access to oil which means you get to keep the persian gulf open and the straits. when you get in there and talk about values, i mean, the saudis are -- since roosevelt -- over there in the suez canal. >> they are not happy right now. >> they are not happy. they don't believe in democracy. >> right. >> they went in to crush that movement because the shia would have -- maybe taken over bahrain. so accepting the fact that this is where you -- this is what these people want or may want. it is how things are run. we got to live with that. and we have to cut our deals basically in terms of our interests which are oil and i think you got deals with virtually all of them.
and, frankly, i think we are going to be moved out of that area because you take who has been dumped over in the -- dumped over in egypt, the guys being dumped in yemen, next door in tunisia, they were all our people. i think -- the united states should just step back and pull out and look at what our vital interests are. work with those and let these people work their destiny out. >> are you sure we are supposed to go out and take out gadhafi. >> i said don't go in at first but don't go in and knock down his army and then saw we are leaving him in power and go. you have to finish your job. >> all or nothing. >> objective is not to have him stay in power. if they want -- they want him to be pushed out internally. the idea of -- the president said last night we are not going to go overthrow him. that means bats to ground. we are not going to do that, i don't think. they are not in a position to do that. then the question is -- does life become so impossible for him? if you have a cruise missile in your backyard, your terrace or
tent in the desert every four hours, it gets your attention. >> i don't think he cares. seriously. this is not someone that is sane. >> how did he stay in power for 42 hours? he didn't stay in power because he was insane. the public gadhafi we public g i always believe there's somebody else back there and how he mobilized very quickly his military and people who were loyal to him. >> because he's bad does not make him crazy. >> that's right. >> suspect there something to be said for this president? practical, passive power, if you will. he lets things play out just as we did in egypt. he went go, go, go. yet he justified the means of an army, so to speak? >> well, here's what i said. i've been doing this a long time. check me on this. in our adult lifetime i don't remember a period in which so many events of catastrophic
proportions have landed on a president's desk all at once. we've engaged in two wars. we've now entered a third one. we have japan, gravely wounded by an earthquake and tsunami, and it has a nuclear meltdown under way. the very senior national security member said i'm more worried about japan than gadhafi at this point, quite honestly. we have a persistent chronic depression and political paralysis in washington. the overlay is everybody has something to say about it on the internet and the blogs. and they're scrambling for something. so am i wrong, pat? >> no. i think you're dead right. i think the country is in as rough a shape it's been in my lifetime. worldwide and at home. problems with the borders. >> which is why they're not black and white solutions. and considered responses are right. >> on that bright note tom
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different. and as president i refuse to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action. >> good morning! it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look across a chilly spring morning in new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us onset, msnbc political analyst pat buchanan. fired up today. angry at the president's speech. donny deutch, who loved the president's speech. president obama has made his case for american involvement in libya, saying repeatedly that the u.s. intervened to prevent the slaughter of civilians. before we show you more of what he had to say. let's go rapid fire around the tame. pat buchanan. five seconds or less. how would you characterize the president's speech? >> left more questions opened than answered. >> donny. >> i thought he was fantastic. he looked like a leader. >> of course, you did. >> charles? >> solid in some ways and homes
in others. interesting. willy? >> i still don't get why we don't go into syria, yemen and other countries. >> speaking before an audience at the national defense university in washington last night the president insisted not taking action would have been, quote, a betrayal of who we are as americans. >> if we waited one more day, b benghazi, a city nearly the size of charlotte could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscious of the world. it was not in our national interest to let that happen. i refused to let that happe momagaaf wni t trngo ot h militarily would be a mistake as costly as the war in iraq. >> if we tried to overthrow gadhafi by force, our coalition would splinter.
we would likely to have put u.s. troops on the ground to accomplish that mission, or risk killing many civilians fm t ai to b blunt, we went down that road in iraq. thanks to the sacrifices of our troops and determination of diplomats we are hopeful about iraq's future. but regime change there took eight years, thousands of american and iraqi lives and nearly a trillion dollars. that is not something we can afford to repeat in libya. >> you could argue, though, that this speech had similarities to president bush's case for war in iraq. about ruling out, taking out gadhafi militarily, what if gadhafi declares a cease fire. >> the president's speech is not credible, quite frankly. he said we're going to lose tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands slaughtered in bengha benghazi. who is going to slaughter them? gadhafi. however, we don't want to get into regime change and remove the guy who was going to do this
when it was an easy task. my reasoning being, the rebels already crossed half of the country behind american air power. in five or six more days of american air power and you can knock him out. >> it's an easy task if you want war. >> a trillion dollars in eight years. we know you can't initiate a regime change and say good-bye, we don't have the resource. i actually think he made a practical decision. imperfect, but a practical decision. could not let the slaughter take place. and willy to your point, we have to pick and choose. you can't do it all. this is a moment in time -- listen to me -- with a coalition. basically humanitarian effort. neuter gadhafi. move on. >> an imperfect but a practical solution. >> you can newt aeneuter a snak. you have the rebels across the country. now you have a civil war between the rebel who is can't win anything on their own. you have a long-term war. people dying in the thousands. >> pat -- >> end the thing.
>> end it? there's no end. end the thing in iraq. it's not a feasible possibility. it is not a practical economic reality for us right now. >> i'm not talking about our economic reality. >> we can't do it. this is imperfect but practical decision. i'm looking at it as a business person. >> we've taken half tp country in one week. you can take this guy out. >> we haven't. >> the americans have done it. the americans have done it. >> i understand what you're don. in fact, there was help across the board. the president should have mentioned his partners in this by name in my opinion. that is what makes this style of leadership -- >> he mentioned france. he mentioned italy, norway. >> they said they do regime change. they don't want to do it under this u.n. resolution militarily. they do not want to use in military campaign as the vehicle for regime change.
now that's a tricky thing to say obviously but to say -- they're saying they do not want gadhafi gone, it's just not true. >> but look. what did gadhafi do, and what does he do to people who tried to kill him? i was with reagan. we wrote that speech. he blew up the plane over lockerbie. what do you think he's going to do in retaliation. you have a wounded snake there, and you have to kill it. >> let's work this out there. you kill him. what happens next? >> what happens next is you bring in the british and french. you get saudi money. you get egyptian troops. get this war over with. >> it's not a war is it? >> then it becomes a war. then it becomes iraq. he was candid when he said i'm going to be blunt. >> i mean, this idea of not calling it a war i also quivel with.
this is mostly our military against their military. a plane has not flown in libya for a first day. this no longer a no-fly zone. there's 200 tomahawks that have been dropped from the u.s. there's, you know, over 450 guided bomb ls dropped by the u.s. this is us attacking them. we're trying to destroy the military both in the physical sense, but also morale wise we're trying to turn their army into our ground troop. you have to have ground troops. >> guys, we sit here every day on this show. let's rewinds six weeks and talk about the 88% of the country between the pentagon entitlements, something has to give. we are going broke. right now it is not an option to wage a full scale war and initiate an occupation in the country. let's rewind. let's put a band-aid on it. let's get him neutered. let's move on. >> if you don't want a war, why in the devil did we start it?
we start ad war. they're sending in cac 130 gun ships. what do you think they're going in there for? >> on a humanitarian effort -- what are you laughing about? >> did you see what a 130 does? it's not ha humanitarian exercise. >> this is what the president had to say on that issue. overall the president welcomed what many are calling the arab spring in the middle east, saying the u.s. would serve as a, quote, north star for democracy. >> i know that at a time of upheaval overseas when the news is filled with conflict and change it can be tempting to turn away from the world. and as i've said before, our strength abroad is anchored in our strength here at home. that must always be our north star. >> willie geist, we would be a north star on baujt, right? >> yes.
and to go back to your question, and this is a sincere question. i'm not being facetious. the questions of the bahrain's and the syrias, we must always what's the number? how many people die in a country where it becomes in our interest? i think he answered that. it all lined up in this case. we have the coalition. basically we have i jipt that we're trying to stabilize. obviously in terms of where it is in egypt and tunisia. then when you add it up on a case by case basis, it made sense to do the north star thing. i don't think there's a black and white answer. we all look for absolute s. we live in a world of grays. it is a case by case basis. i don't think we can put on paper and put in a nice grid when you do it and when you don't it he acted very --
>> if he lays out and say i wasn't going to wait to see images of mass graves on tv, then what about the other countrie countri countries? >> what about the other countries moving forward? what about all the cases on the continent of africa where we could have intervened where we have images of mass slaughter? you could have made a case to go into darfur, for all the tens of thousands of people killed in benghazi look like a picnic. there are ways to always say there's a humanitarian case. it is always easy to make that case because we don't like to see people die. particularly when they're in pursuit of the democracy. the problem is, when do you put the brakes on. >> and was that addressed? last night's speech -- are we all on the same page, is supposed to clear up questions about how and why we are doing this.
do we all wake up this morning having a sense of clarity? >> i did. i really did. >> so what was? in one line. >> one line, once again, it was a practical solution, it was an immediate problem in an imperfect world. let's solve this. basically is i wish we could go back to what libya was eight weeks ago. we know we have a snake in there. let's neuter him. we can't do much more. to do much less would be un-american. >> the united states is going to this continue bombing and ki killing the libyan army because if we don't there's a possibility these rebels who haven't been able to show they can beat their way out of a paper bag without our help, they can get beat again. they were being run out of their country until the americans came in. i disagree with us going in. in war there is no substitute for victory. >> are we calling this war? >> victory is the purpose of
war. what it is when you're killing all the people. ask the libyan soldiers under our guns whether this is a war. >> well, i asked the question honestly. i'm asking it because i think it's still o er i don't know how it can be parsed out this way. that's where i'm not satisfied. >> credibility is a real problem. i wish the president would just come out and state it candidly and clearly. look, we may not like this. you are against this. we did it to save lives. we have to complete this job. then we will get out. i want your support. he would have got it. >> i don't think the war necessarily is a dirty word here. people are treating it like it's a dirty word. people say if you support the president you will not call it a war. on some levels i don't know what else you call it when it's military on military conflict. so -- and i don't think that's a
knock on the president. i just think that it is what it is. >> we have called it a civil war in libya, which it is. a very low grade civil war. but that's what it is. for a fight over who will control the future of that country. >> okay. well, i don't think the president is calling it a war, and i think there are reasons why. we don't want a wi war. >> it's not an option. it's actually not an option. i want to go back. >> curious. what is a war to you? >> call it an offensive-defensive action. >> stop right there. >> there was no time line. we don't have an option. we are a business in this country. we don't have another trillion dollars to spend over the next eight years. not an option. >> we're not going to spend a trillion dollars. let's do the mcarthur thing. let's go in. >> you're half way there. >> there is no half way there.
are we half way there in iraq? able to leave a week after we take out saddam hussein? >> you want to call this a war. >> if war is a long term thing was the israeli six-day war a long term thing? in 1967 that defeated the egyptians and jordanians in six days. it was pa war. we could end this in two weeks. >> then what happens? >> you bring in the brits and the frempbl. you don't want the germans and italians because of their history. you tell the saudis and arab league to man up. we had enough of your nonsense. you said you were with us before this thing. we got rid of him. you guys pay for it. we're leaving. >> you're leaving the backdoor open. >> you know that's not going to work. it's never going to be that neat. no matter how this turns out,
it's not going to turn out neatly. >> if we leave now, how does that turn out? >> there's not positive here. >> then why did you start it? >> well, i znt start it. ask the president that question. >> imagine if we -- >> i thought you were in on this. >> i want to make a point. i want us to just take the two other extremes. a, we don't start and do nothing and we're watching the pictures of genocide. where is the leadership? on the flip side, full ska military action, what is he doing? we're trying to pull out of afghanistan. i'm agreeing with you. this is a very imperfect, but i think practical solution in a gray situation which in this world most of them are right now. either extreme is just not an option. the one thing the president is can not say is you cannot allow
the brute to win in the case. there are so many dominos yet to fall. he can't say that. >> why doesn't he just say just what you said. we can not allow this guy to stay in office after what he has done and what he was prepared to do in benghazi. >> i have some clarity for you all. our next guest is answering the call to balance his state's budget. it's coming at a cost to his improvement numbers. we'll also bring in the meteorologist bill karins for a check of the forecast. >> another cold morning for everybody throughout. all the the way across the country. exception all along the gulf. windchills in the 20s from pittsburgh to chicago all the way back to minneapolis. today's high temperatures, not
bad in d.c. a lot like yesterday. at least it's dry for now. we have a severe weather threat. gusty winds sweeping through san antonio, austin, houston. and then all through louisiana during the afternoon. maybe an isolated tornado or two. but i think thal and the gusty winds is the biggest concern. forecast for anyone waking up early on the west coast. dreary and cloudy from portland to sealt. but a nice period of weather is on the way for phoenix and tucson. san diego and los angeles. you'll be by fa twaanie ithcotr i'm good about washing my face.
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the republicans refuse to negotiate on a final number. the biggest gap in the negotiation isn't between the republicans and democrats. it's between republicans and republicans. enfighting between the tea party and the rest of the republican party is keeping our negotiating partner under the negotiating table. it's hard to negotiate without someone on the other side of the table to talk to. >> all right. welcome back to morning joe. 21 past the hour. we have tom brokaw and pat buchanan with us and joining us now is daninel malloy. >> what a run for uconn.
never been done before. and then right through to this point it's remarkable. >> that would be the huskies. >> and probably the best freshman. you can make your arguments, but a clutch player. >> and the ladies are on their way again, too. >> we're used to that in connecticut. >> well, that's exciting. that would be fun to watch them gain the title. let's talk budgets and some of the governors like you on the front lines of making drastic, difficult decisions. andrew cuomo. he was able to get a budget deal without raising taxes. >> yeah. listen. i think every state is different. and -- >> connecticut probably doesn't need to raise taxes and you did. >> connecticut does need to raise tax. we have a $3.3 billion budget. you couldn't cut your way out of it. you can't tax your way out of it. >> gross numbers. >> it's the biggest per capita deficit in all of the country.
and really because no one did any of the hard work over the last few years, you can say what you want about new york and all the problems with the governors. they used all the stimulus money. used all of the rainy day fund. didn't change tb spending habits. that's what i inherited. >> that's what you got. >> what's the future, governor, for states around the counted? not just connecticut but new york and what's going on in the midwest and such. i'm struck by the idea that there's going to be a lot more public-private partnerships going on. what mitch daniels is doing in indiana, for example. and schools getting help from private corporations and other what used to be pure public institutions now have a private component in terms of participation, is that going to happen in connecticut? >> it's going to happen everywhere. but we have a rogue system in connecticut that hasn't been completed in 30 years. from hartford down to the shore.
eight and a half miles. never done. i said, listen, let's do it as a public/private partnership or reinstitute totals. we don't have totals in connecticut. just to get that part of it completed. school systems, we're doing that right and left. zbrks e has a great program and a relation shil in a number of our cities. including stanford where i was n tos. seensit god balance. what we've seen is a shrinkage of corporate taxes as a percentage of states doing business. and this is a different way for corporations to participate in their functioning state governments. >> when you raise taxes in connecticut, as you did -- >> well, as oi'm trying to do. >> what are you getg from the businesses? >> they understand that connecticut has been playing games. we were not generally a gap. we weren't compliant.
never did it. our state government required every local government to report a gap and then exempted itself. one of my predecessors enter into a 20-year agreement on benefits with employees. 20 years. i mean no first elect man or mayor in their right mind would have done that. by the way. he was a republican. i'm a democrat. i'm trying to put the economic house in order to start building again. connecticut has lost jobs for 22 years. and if you took fairfield county and the two casinos developed in the last 15 years out of the equation, connecticut is in a job depression. why? we have not restrained spending habits. we've not stayed within reasonable limits. you have to understand that this deficit was structural in connecticut. it would have existed regardless of the downturn in the economy. got bigger because of the downturned economy. >> let look at your approval ratings. they've had a little hit. maybe because of this. maybe not. a, do you care? >> sure you care. and i have feelings.
>> aw! okay. back to the businesses. you can't say they're happy about this, can you? >> honestly i can look you in the face and tell you that the business, the biggest employers of the state of connecticut are happy with the budget. >> the argument is connecticut is not business friendly. a lot of businesses try to go to other places like in the south where they can establish themselves and make some money. >> we're never going to this lead in lowin high precision ma. you want to buy a jet engine, come to connecticut. you want to buy wind turbine, come to connecticut. submarines. >> i covered the sub layoffs year after year after year, and i wonder how do we get ourselves into the future? >> those subs have performed pretty well as of late. >> tell us about the
relationship with the public unions in your state. what have you asked of public unions to help balance the budget. >> come to the table with a billion dollars is basically what i've said. this budget is built on the premise that we were going to cut expenditures on a year to year basis with two exceptions, transportation and health care. that we were going to reduce the expenditures in the budget i was handed on november 15th by the outgoing republican governor by $800 billion. we're going to ask the unions to kick in a billion dlado and we were going to raise taxes. there's no way to get to a billion dollars without those being taken out. >> you and the the republican governors and democrats are into austerity. you got to do it. you got to balance the budget. how does that stimulate a great economy like the united states to get moving again and really create the millions and millions
of jobs that are needed to simply bring back the unemployed from the last two years. >> in the short run, pat, it doesn't do it. moody's analytics as well as the treasury department is estimating the downsize in the governments will have a negative impact on the gnp. we have to be realistic about what it's going to do in the next year, the next 18 months. in the short run, it's going to cut growth. >> how many state agencies do you have in connecticut? >> we had 87. i'm taking it down to 51. that's a 30% reduction. we're going to get it down substantially more. we do a buying in budget. i took office on july 5th -- excuse me. january 5th. by february 16th i had to p propose a budget. this whole idea that connecticut has that if someone is not doing their job you create another
agency to watch him, doesn't make any sense. i'm trying to get rid of it. >> we had a visit by kirsten gillibrand in our office. she was talking about the new companies coming to upstate new york, naming pretty big names and filling vacant factory buildings. any new big businesses coming to connecticut? interested in coming to connecticut? >> yeah. i'm in discussions with a number of big businesses. yesterday i called on three businesses. today i will be calling on three businesses. we are going to get businesses to con zol date resources back into connecticut. connecticut has long ignored the insurance industry. >> are we at the point to name some of these? do they want to sign on the dotted line and come to connecticut? >> if you think i'm going to advertise who i'm talking to right now, you don't know me. >> not there yet. >> maybe frustration isn't the word. but i guess surprise. what's the biggest surprise when you came into office? because as president obama has
found, too. it's easy to campaign and talk about the things you want to do, and once you get into office it's tougher to govern. have you been frustrated by the politics? >> no. i was a mayor for years of a robust city, stanford, not far from here. i learned a lot of my trade as a mayor. the difference between being a mayor in a strong form of government and being governor is not that agreement. in some ways i'm well prepared if for challenges that we have. the objection to change, i was aware of. on a statewide basis you feel it even greater. everybody wants me to balance the budget without cutting anything and without raising taxes. we have an attitude that in cutting budgets people reserve the right to choose where you're right and wrong. they want things put back more than cut. >> are you going to cut education? >> no. you mentioned governors here.
some are really transferring to local government and calling it a cut. it isn't a cut. in connecticut in connecticut it plays itself out to property taxes. the largest tax anyone pays in connecticut. it's a more negativenf on job growth than personal taxes or income taxes. we have income taxes in the state of connecticut substantially lower than new york and new jersey. we'll continue to be substantially lower. it's one of our competitive advantages. >> you knew how to balance the budget. you got the $3 billion down. the feds got a $1.65 trillion deficit this year. republicans proposed 4 billion cuts, 6 billion cuts. we've blown that out in libya. really, how do we ever get the federal government a balanced budget? >> honestly republicans and democrats have to have an honest
conversation about everything being on the table. not 12% of the budget or 14% of the budget being on the table. you and i know you're not going to balance this budget in the long run if you only talk about 12% of the federal budget. there are entitlements. there is a defense budget. we have to put everything on the table. you have to take a restrained long term view. but it can be done. we've done it in the past. >> give me one -- everybody says that. but give me a really big item. >> you had governor pawlenty on here talking social security. everyone says let's make change. but we're only going to make change way out in the future. what would you want to do exactly? what would you do to balance it? >> woumd you have means assessing for medicare? >> everything has to be on the table. >> would you raise the age to how much? >> this is great. i'm not running for president so i can say these things. i think everything has to be on the table.
and the problem, pat, is i'm not sure there are any big people in the republican. poor tim pawlenty is on before. he's afraid to say what is really on his mind. democrats won't say it because they believe they're going beaten up in 30-second ads by republicans. republicans won't say it because they're going to be beaten up. >> what you're saying is the american system doesn't work at the national level. >> listen, i'm the last person in the world to say that the american system doesn't work. is it working at the optimum right now? the answer is no. have management for sound bites overtaken our body politic? the answer is yes. only when we get beyond that point and have serious discussions and goet people to understand it's more than a sound bite. >> how many $1.65 trillion deficits can you go on until you're greece, until you're
portugal, until you're ireland and default at the national level? >> i think it's a matter of years. >> back to connecticut. i have a question for you. what's your relationship with cuomo and governor christi? you comparing notes? in the touch? >>. >>ouon counat wl, stn,h'rnot cainme for advice. i cannecticut? >> oh, you seem like such a nice person. why would you do this to me? i love them all. every one of them. >> what's your favorite station in connecticut? >> no. >> don't do it. >> come on. >> chris hansen is a neighbor of mine. he's down the hal. eehim. >> chris hansen. dateline nbc. come on, governor. you'll tell me. dannel malloy. great to have you onset. ♪
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york stock exchange. >> markets fluctuated. in general we're opening higher. continuing the painfully slow agonizing move higher. we talk about home building and housing as the center of the financial crisis. usually the engine for an economic recovery. obviously not this time around. lennar is the third biggest home builder in the country. they had to offer fewer incentives to sell new homes. that's a sign of strength perhaps in the market. so that' vernor bellard saying we don't need to finish with the big monetary program. overnight he came out with more comments saying that is basically fuelling the fire. too much liquidity. >> i have to jump in. where is the cat fight part? >> it was bernard versus
bernanke. i imagined it like a cat fight. >> cat fight involves women. the final thing is consumer confidence comes out at 10:00 with gas prices going up. that's an important number. confidence not linked to spending. but expectations are. so we'll be watching that. then i have to weigh in on this. it's been getting a lot of coverage in the media. this issue of corporate taxes and tax reform. today jeffrey sax stopped a trace to this the bottom on corporate tax. howard silver ran the tax numbers for the entire s&p 500. and you will all be interested. we pulled out a few standouts of who stands out for 2010 taxes of what companies say they'll be paying. not what you may expect, by the way. pfizer, 12%. target, as most retailers at, right at 35. the statutory rate. and exxon mobil at 41.
all the big energy companies are all above 35. i have to leave you with this. who is our real parent, willie geist? >> general electric. >> no. >> comcast. >> you have to get that right, my friend. >> of course. >> so ge's tax rate in 2010, 7.5%. that's nothing to be proud of. comcast, above and beyond the statutory rate. you are a good corporate citizen now, willie geist. 40%. comcast is our parent. >> who is the owner of nbc? >> a great group of guys across the board. >> erin, thanks so much. appreciate it. erin, i won't be home until 8:30 tonight, right? >> why? why? it was a perfectly good soegment. up next, did the president outline a clear message on libya? ♪ birds flying high
each of the countries are very different. the scale of violence is nothing of the sort that we've seen in libya. each of these countries is different, and it would be naive and unwise to assume the same approach applies to each. >> state tv in syria is reporting that the country's cabinet has dissolved. this comes amid syria's worst unrest in decades. as the obama administration faces growing questions about the possible role in syria, if there's going to be one at all. the u.s. and allied forces waging the campaign against all this. joining us from washington, associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene
robinson. good to see you this morning. >> good morning, willie. >> on way too early this morning we read part of your piece, your re reaction to the president's speech. you were a bit critical. what did you think was missing? >> i thought in general it was a good speech. there are some unanswered questions. the obama doctrine seemed really tailored to be an explanation of this intervention. but there's loose ends. she said don't generalize what we're doing. the president said one reason to go to libya was to show others in the region that they couldn't perpetrate the same violence that gadhafi was perpetrating. so there seems to be kind of a contradiction there. i wonder which conflicts get
ground troops and which don't. does oil matter in the equation? there are a lot of questions that weren't really answered. >> eugene, it's donny. he seemed more presidential than i'd ever seen him. there was something there i had not seen in two and a half years. did you feel the same way? >> absolutely. i did. the optics of the speech and the way he delivered it. yes. he seemed presidential. but the setting, it surprised me, actually. i wondered beforehand about ding it at the war college rather than the oval office, which would be the tradition that will space for that sort of speech. it worked well to project the image of a president large and in charge. as you pointed out, he said we have to stop a massacre that's
about to occur. we have the ability to do it. we have the motivation. we're going to stop the massacre, and then we're going to leave. and we're going to get out and hand it over to who we're going to hand it over to. is that are l a doctrine applicable to other countries in the region? i don't see how that's a doctrine you can generalize. our number one -- are we going to leave? somebody is going to have to be there in libya. and you enaboth know that the united states is not going to be totally uninvolved in libya two or three years from now. i don't believe that. ooel be bearing some cost. you break it, you buy it. we're breaking it, so we're going to buy it. >> gene, i want to turn your to
your focus on libya. gingrich, by contrast reflectively shoots for the lip. on any conceivable subject. he's always ready to tell you something more than he knews. he he's certain his view is 100% right until he decides it's 100% wrong. newt gingrich now famously flip-flopped two and a half weeks later on whether or not we should be there. what's the deal with gingrich? >> that's newt gingrich. he's an interesting figure in american politics. he's been an influential figure in our country's recent history. but as president of the united states. a guy who says intervene now. i wouldn't have intervened and now flipped back and said we're there so now we have to get rid of gadhafi.
says ridiculous things about what air power can or can't do. he's not presidential material. he's better doing what he does now. >> whenever we talk about newt gingrich. people say he's such a smart guy but. why does he keep saying things like this if he's such a smart guy? >> he's playing at a high level. he's played at a presidential level with bill clinton. he did lose the battle over the budget with clinton. but he has played up there at that level before. and he does seem to be stumbling terribly in the first couple months of a presidential run he's been preparing for for ten years. >> number one, he's clearly out of practice, pat. he's been a while since he's been in the campaign. i think as legislator or speaker of the house, he was effective. as president i don't think he has the straight ahead, straight
line focused and discipline he would need to win the presidency, much less be president. >> it's been 20 years since he's run for office. >> thanks so much. the piece this morning in the "washington post." newt gingrich firing in every direction. good to see you. we're america's natural gas. and here's what we did today in homes all across america: we created the electricity that powered the alarm clocks and brewed the coffee. d gavely cleane tscol. cook cube eaks d steamethe ve
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